Classroom armed vs Classroom unarmed
Ah yes, I got stuck watching the news during dinner this evening. This guy named David Muir, you know, one of the news casters who appears to have a broom handle stuck up the ol’ poop chute; I digress, sorry.
Anyway, the President’s meeting with some of the family members of the victims of the Florida school shooting was featured (David Hogg was conspicuously missing), at least part of it. At one point the President suggested arming some teachers in schools. Put them through rigorous training every 6 months or every year, thus the teachers would be equipped to protect the students. He asked the room of folks who agrees with the idea and several raised their hands. He then asked who opposed the idea and several raised their hands. He then said that he and the Congress would be looking at that idea among others.
Now, I have to put myself in the position of a parent with a kid in school. Hmmmm … let’s do it this way; Lets say there are two classrooms full of students. Each has a teacher. One is armed with a handgun (concealed of course), the other doesn’t have a gun. Suddenly a guy or gal walks into the school with a gun and starts shooting. Both teachers barricade their classroom doors. The guy approaches and starts banging on the door and it’s obvious that he’s coming in. Which classroom would you rather have your kid in?
Cry and Howl 
Well…the “real” news is out
The day of the shooting there was an “armed” guard on duty
Who never entered the building
He was suspended without pay but he decided to resign
COWARD
…and PS
I’m sitting in the armed classroom right next to you
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And the sheriff afterwards says that teachers shouldn’t be allowed to carry guns. Yeah, so we wait on you sheriff???? No thanks. Heck, I’ve been carrying in my church for quite a while now. Someone comes in like the guy in Sutherland Springs … well … at least me and mine won’t go down without a fight.
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I realize you likely agree with the slogan, “God created Man but Col. Colt made him equal.”, the success of your ability to save “you and your’s” is your ability to use your head, and then your trigger finger. Confidence is great but it’s no substitute for common sense. A gunman walking in will have the drop on you… because you will need time to get past the reality of the moment (maybe a couple seconds), and get aware to grab your weapon from wherever on you it is concealed. And honestly my first action would be to get my family down from flying bullets or being a target… then pull out my gun.
Sorry.. it just bothers me when people think their gun is the focus on their escape rather than their brain. Braggadocios “I will go down fighting!” pretty much assures you will.
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“Braggadocios???” Please don’t resort to insults here Doug … that bothers me. It’s not a brag. You don’t know me at all. I’ll leave it at that.
Yeah, I can see you’re struggle with Classroom A or B. Your need to psyco-analyze the teacher’s mental capacity through all your “ifs” definitely falls into the category stunning. I can just picture it … BANG, BANG, BANG, “I’m coming in to blow your fcuking heads off!!!!!!” ……… “Uh, teacher, are you proficient in using that ugly gun? Do you have the mental fortitude to pull the trigger? Are we guaranteed that you can stop this? If not, I’m going to the other class room.”
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Between the two of us, Steve, we certainly reflect the problems in trying to solve this thing. The crazy irony.. we both like guns.
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I don’t like or dislike guns any more than anyone else Doug. I think they are useful in protecting us as individuals.
The bottom line is, a shooter walked into a school and killed 17 innocent kids. Not one teacher had a gun. Can we agreed with an “if?” IF a teacher had a gun, is it possible the outcome might have been different? Is it possible maybe 16 kids might have been killed, or perhaps less? Lets raise the age to buy a gun to 40 years old … what does that do in that situation? How will that stop another shooting. How does a ban on scary guns stop the next one. Get real. Evil exists and sometimes evil has to be met on it’s own terms.
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Look, Steve… the only one I would ever truly rely on if they were a teacher and if they were armed.. and a shooter came into the classroom, is myself. In lieu of that, I would have to trust a system to ..
* Somehow evaluate a volunteer teacher might be at least a little bit physically capable and mentally aware enough to use a weapon… and not just be on some “I gotta gun” power trip. Even police departments screen their recruits for these kinda profiles).
* Train the person on a range to fire a weapon and provide necessary maintenance. I am guessing qualifying on a range would be a requirement periodically?
* I would guess combat firing training would be in here somewhere? (including the pop up target routine.. after all, you’d not want a kind opening a door to the classroom and the teacher thinks it’s a shooter)
* Who selects the gun? Does the volunteer teacher listen to some family member who swears by .357 revolver over 40 cal. auto… and there will end up being a collection of weapons depending on what classroom you enter and the weapon of choice for that teacher… or will there be some recommended/required weapon?
* Will there be a standard load.. or a collection of hollow points, ball, armor piercing, or someone who listens to Uncle Joe and he swears by dum-dums? Lower velocity airplane rounds so as not to penetrate walls and people?
* Seems you would certainly want some training, counseling, whatever, that the reason you have the gun is to kill someone to defend children (yourself second)… NOT to preserve law and order like the police.
* Oh.. and don’t forget the required class on legal exposure, and what action you take will be covered by legislation a court of law.. or what will be on your own.
Are you, me, any of us ready to fully support and totally trust this process (with likely many more elements than I can list here) to make sure an armed teacher are fully and mentally qualified and equipped to kill a shooter? (and make no mistake… you can call it “defending” but in fact in the end the teacher will have a gun to kill someone as part of that defense.
For as much as most of your readers distrust government involvement in anything I would have some serious concerns in trusting a system to qualify a teacher to carry a gun.
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After many decades on this earth I’ve developed the attitude that if my government is telling me I don’t need an AR15, then I’m getting one. Just like we were told we could keep our doctors. Just like some guy in Afghanistan on dialysis with a cell phone and lap top circumvented the most sophisticated defense on the planet and crashed jumbo jets into skyscrapers … and we’re expected to believe it. Just like over 200 eyewitnesses saw the trail of a missile lead to TWA Flight 800 and then explode and we’re supposed to believe it was a fuel system problem. Just like we’re supposed to believe the U.S. didn’t know Pearl Harbor was going to be attacked. and on and on and on. No, I tend to believe I’m the one responsible for protecting myself and love ones … one. And rest assured I’m not bragging.
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Copy that, Steve.
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hocuspocus13 – You don’t know the politics private security guards must endure; they’ve no more authority then a private citizen, and can be held legally liable if something “goes south”. After nine yrs in Casino security where you have other officers backing your play, if He gave “do overs” I’d never have left that venue. Have done both armed and unarmed assignments.
You don’t provide all the info either; how large an area to be covered, and were there any other officers assigned there to assist in their most basic of responsibilities – that of “observe and report”?
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Observe and report? Whatever happened to Protect and Serve?
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Become an employee of a Private security company, and experience the reality. You use Protect and Serve which is a Police motto.
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Pass laws and give the training so that the Private Security Companies can do the job. In the meantime, it was not a private security guy who acted like a coward in this case … It was a deputy sheriff! Forget the “Dollar Cops” because they are worthless at the job of providing the necessary security to deal with nut cases like the ones that are killing our kids. By the way, all the “Dollar Cops” I have ever seen are packing. Why are they packing if they aren’t allowed to shoot?
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The guy at the school in Florida was a county deputy sheriff.
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Perhaps…
That’s the problem
Should it be “politics”
Or
Law and Order
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Why stop there?
Let’s assume in a student/teacher scuffle the student grabs the gun.. or.. the gun falls to the floor and another student takes it?
Let’s assume the teacher confronts the shooter.. and freezes because being in that situation was never a possibility for that adult in becoming a teacher; that maybe a couple hours of training on a Saturday morning is not enough to assure a typically pacifist teacher will kill someone. And who is liable when the teacher freezes? And is the school district going to absorb the Workman’s Comp claim, and Social Security going to pay for the personal emotional trauma because that teacher will never be able to return to work due to PTSD?
But let’s try this one… SWAT enters the building looking for someone with a gun… guess who they find first? Guess who dies first?
Being reported is a police resource officer who flat out never entered the building to engage the shooter. Fear? You cannot predict human reaction.
Jeezzz.. that’s such a damn bad idea.
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“What If,” “What If,” “Shoulda-Woulda-Coulda!” Let’s cut the Leftist crap and arm the teachers!
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John, Doug is loaded with “what ifs” … I mean the typical liberal rant of looking for a problem within a solution … instead of a solution to a problem.
So Doug, which classroom would you rather your kid be? With the armed teacher or the unarmed teacher … workers comp and social security aside. LOL! Gawd I love a liberal argument.
Anyway, one more time … Classroom A … or Classroom B … tick-tock …
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In a perfect world.. notice I said PERFECT world.. yep.. my kid in the room with the gun totting teacher for sure… only IF the teacher gets to pull it out from wherever he has hidden it, and he has the mental fortitude to pull the trigger to kill… which I am assuming in your above scenario he will be guaranteed to do?
But we do not live in a perfect world, and actions (and inactions) have ramifications over an beyond the anticipated event.
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To all; Had just found this on instapundit:
February 22, 2018
CAN THE BROWARD COUNTY SHERIFF’S DEPARTMENT GET ANY MORE SAD AND USELESS AND PATHETIC? YES, YES IT CAN. Sheriff: Armed officer at school never entered building during shooting.
Two thoughts: (1). So much for “only the police should have guns.” (2). If an armed teacher had had a gun, he/she would have already been in the building. So even if he/she was as big a coward as this officer, he/she might have still done something.
Oh, and (3): Now we see why the Broward Sheriff has been so eager to blame the NRA instead of his pathetic department. URL: https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/289436/
With this info, I can side with hocuspocus…
To John – Having been an armed officer in the past, the criteria imposed even when there is an armed threat is …daunting, for the reason I’d stated to hocuspocus earlier.
Seldom is there more than a single officer, and post orders preclude their ability to “take the bull by the horns” when it’s a matter of a judgment call, with no one else to back their play. A civil suit could be leveled against the officer.
I decline to be more specific online.
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